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Death Spiral at Worldmark.

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 PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2020 1:51 pm   

Joined: Thu 08 Jul 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 275
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
ChrisandBeth wrote:
eakroeker wrote:
I have heard that basically all timeshare companies will be levying assessments to their owners due to the Covid 19 situation and all the lost revenues they are experiencing.
The assessments are rumored to be in the range of 3 - 5 times the annual maintenance dues of each owner.
Has anyone else heard about this?
Apparently one timeshare company has already done this and it is widely expected that others will follow suit and will be doing this in the next 2 months.
Yikes!!



What lost revenue.....maintenance fees at Worldmark are guaranteed by Wyndham as declarant.

I don't know how to take the original poster. Similar posts on three different sub-forums.


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 PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2020 1:59 pm   

Joined: Fri 27 May 2005 6:15 am
Posts: 3875
eakroeker wrote:
I've heard rumors that timeshare companies will be sending out special assessments to their owners in the next 2 months.
Due to all the lost revenue from Covid 19 restrictions.
These could amount from 3-5 times the annual dues for each owner.
That's a lot of money!
Has anyone here had any experience or knowledge of the Ovation program that Wyndham offers?
Trying to find out more about it without asking corporate.


There won't be an assessment, IMO. That's just speculation from people who don't know much.

If you want to get rid of your WM account, then sell it. The prices have come down, but it is still worth money. Giving it to Wyndham via Ovations is a waste of your money. Post it for sale here or contact one of the trusted resellers (check the memberships for sale section) to sell it for you.

The main impact for WM owners due to COVID will be more credits (from cancelled/delayed vacations) chasing the same number of reservations. Be flexible and work the waitlist.

Sue

_________________
Resorts Visited: All WA, OR, ID, MT, CO, UT resorts + Las Vegas Blvd, Reno, South Shore, Rancho Vistoso, Bison Ranch, Fairfield Sedona, Big Bear, Bass Lake, Angels Camp, Marina Dunes, San Francisco, Windsor, Clear Lake, Kona, Kauai, Oceanside, Pismo Beach, Solvang.

Non-WM:II (All blue deposits; studio-2BR) Grand Monarch Cancun, Newport Coast Villas, Pollard Brook, Harbor Ridge, FSA, Sedona Summit, Starr Pass Golf Suites, Lawrence Welk Resort villas, Stoneridge at Blanchard, Hyatt High Sierra, Ridge Tahoe, Marriott Desert Springs, Wyndham Oceanside on trade with owner. Manteo Club, Sunchaser Riverside, Suites at Fisherman's Wharf,Mountainside Fairmont Hot Springs, Welk Northstar. Getaways/AC: Ridge Tahoe, The Pines at Sunriver, Eagle Crest, Sedona Summit, Crestwood, Surfside, Marriotts Summit Watch.
RCI:Lagoon Shores at Roche Harbor, Stoneridge (Sunriver), San Luis Bay Inn, GEVC at Lighthouse Point.


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 PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2020 4:05 pm   
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Joined: Fri 16 Apr 2004 6:54 pm
Posts: 4837
Location: Yakima, Washington
sue1947 wrote:
eakroeker wrote:
I've heard rumors that timeshare companies will be sending out special assessments to their owners in the next 2 months.
Due to all the lost revenue from Covid 19 restrictions.
These could amount from 3-5 times the annual dues for each owner.
That's a lot of money!
Has anyone here had any experience or knowledge of the Ovation program that Wyndham offers?
Trying to find out more about it without asking corporate.


There won't be an assessment, IMO. That's just speculation from people who don't know much.

If you want to get rid of your WM account, then sell it. The prices have come down, but it is still worth money. Giving it to Wyndham via Ovations is a waste of your money. Post it for sale here or contact one of the trusted resellers (check the memberships for sale section) to sell it for you.

The main impact for WM owners due to COVID will be more credits (from cancelled/delayed vacations) chasing the same number of reservations. Be flexible and work the waitlist.

Sue
In the case of WorldMark, I agree with Sue that a "special assessment" is not likely. IMHO there should be either a partial refund of maintenance fees to WorldMark owners, a reduction in annual maintenance fees, or a freeze on maintenance fees for 2021.

Why? Given that many resorts have been closed for several months, wear & tear on the properties such as furniture, carpeting, appliances is reduced, cost of consumables (toilet paper, towels, sheets, etc.) are less, yet owners continue to pay the same maintenance fees. Perhaps more significant is that owners cannot use their vacation credits due to various COVID-19 restrictions, and those credits will be lost...to the benefit of Wyndham. And, this assumes that staff at all resorts remains at pre-COVID-19 employment levels....which any decent CEO should reduce as quickly as possible.

Wyndham will argue that roofs still need replacement, buildings need to be repainted, parking lots need resurfacing, etc. That is understood. However given the many unoccupied units and the current maintenance fee schedule, the equation does not balance.

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Gary
Assign your proxy to WM Owners, Inc. Do NOT assign your proxy to WorldMark's BOD.
WM Owner since 2003.


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 PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug 2020 5:17 pm   
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Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004 4:51 pm
Posts: 16446
Location: California
eakroeker wrote:
Has anyone here had any experience or knowledge of the Ovation program that Wyndham offers?
Trying to find out more about it without asking corporate.


Welcome to WMOwners.

Do you use your WorldMark? Do you own it free & clear, or are you still tied to loan payments?

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WM Owner since 1999


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 PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2020 6:26 am   

Joined: Tue 10 Apr 2012 7:02 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Central CA
benh7777 wrote:
Marathoner wrote:
andrewoftheblue wrote:
Is it possible that the value of a Worldmark ownership could become negative?


I believe that in trying to combat mega renters, the destruction of value to regular owners has been substantial. We were able to more or less co-exist with mega renters in the past but everyone wanted to make the mega-renters lives harder. In doing so, we also made our ownership less valuable and more costly. Not a good situation that we are in with no change in the downward direction of our credit values expected looking forward.



I couldn't disagree more.
Yeah ok $$ value continues to get lower, and I disagree with and dislike higher dues and some rules.
But the whole thing with doing away with mega renters is to free up availability for owners. Obviously right now availability is much higher with covid, but it has been noticeable even before covid, the greater amount of availability. As an owner who wants to actually use and enjoy my membership, not sell credits or reservations or sell my membership I'm very happy how things are going.

I understand people own for different reasons, but I purchased Worldmark as an investment to enjoy vacations, not for a $$ investment.
Worldmark is very far from not being worth it.


We just left West Yellowstone and I couldn't agree more.

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 PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2020 10:37 am   

Joined: Tue 06 May 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 2210
Location: Salem, Oregon
cowartm wrote:
benh7777 wrote:
Marathoner wrote:

I believe that in trying to combat mega renters, the destruction of value to regular owners has been substantial. We were able to more or less co-exist with mega renters in the past but everyone wanted to make the mega-renters lives harder. In doing so, we also made our ownership less valuable and more costly. Not a good situation that we are in with no change in the downward direction of our credit values expected looking forward.



I couldn't disagree more.
Yeah ok $$ value continues to get lower, and I disagree with and dislike higher dues and some rules.
But the whole thing with doing away with mega renters is to free up availability for owners. Obviously right now availability is much higher with covid, but it has been noticeable even before covid, the greater amount of availability. As an owner who wants to actually use and enjoy my membership, not sell credits or reservations or sell my membership I'm very happy how things are going.

I understand people own for different reasons, but I purchased Worldmark as an investment to enjoy vacations, not for a $$ investment.
Worldmark is very far from not being worth it.


We just left West Yellowstone and I couldn't agree more.


We agree with Marthoner. The adverse effects on the regular Account Holder is far greater than the effect on the Megarenters.

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Tom and Patti
Joined Worldmark August 2002
Las Vegas-Boulevard, Victoria, Seaside, Windsor, Clear Lake, Running Y, Coral Baja, Kona, Kihei, Tropicana, Oceanside, Sydney, Daytona Beach, Coffs Harbour, Gleneden, Canadian, Fiji, Rotorua, Kapa'a Shore, Mission Valley, Camlin, Arrow Point, West Yellowstone, New Orleans, Park City, St. George, Seven Mile Beach, Long Beach, Reno, Discovery Bay. Spencer Street, Leavenworth, Melbourne.
Residence Club - Seaside. Royal Solaris. DRI. Formerly RVC.
II - Newport Coast.
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 PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2020 6:59 pm   

Joined: Sat 13 Dec 2003 1:45 pm
Posts: 1431
Location: Wapato
andrewoftheblue wrote:
Is it possible that the value of a Worldmark ownership could become negative? We have all seen the value go down on a constant trajectory. The secondary market is approaching zero, and you can no longer "rent" your credits for enough to cover maintenance dues. Here is the big question; if you quit paying dues can you be held liable for them beyond only being locked out of property usage? The answer to this question is critical. If it is "yes", we could be in trouble. An owner would be unable to even "walk away" from a paid-for contract, it would become more liability than asset. You would not be able to give it away for free. This could cause a negative value and cause real hardship. Where will the bottom be on credit value, both for sale and rent, and where is the bottom on ratio of dues/credit rental? If it gets much lower I could see a rush on unloading memberships and a terminal death spiral for Worldmark.


I have been a WM owner since 1995 and the value of WM has definitely steadily decrease since Cendant bought Trendwest. The only reason that I am keeping my membership is to get into resorts such as Depoe Bay. There is no way that I could rent a comparable unit on the Oregon Coast for my MFS. Cendant now re-branded as Wyndham has actively worked to kill the resale market but I think you will be able to get rid of a membership for at least a number of years yet.


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 PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2020 9:32 am   
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Joined: Thu 21 Jun 2007 9:41 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Both sides of the Washington Cascades
We still feel this ownership has a lot of value, but definitely has lost a lot of its luster since Wyndham has gotten its grimy claws on us. I've been working the Bonus Time system with our 2 accounts lately and it's supremely annoying they've upped the minimum per night charge to $80. In some cases, I can find a decent (not as nice, but decent) local hotel mid-week for the same price with breakfast. And - booking a studio to use like a hotel room isn't worth what it used to be price-wise in red season for older properties, except for weekends. Forget about blue and white weeks.

AND don't even get me started on the 2-night minimum and 10:00 am checkouts. I truly hope this will be a Covid short-lived thing, or GRRRRRR!! (I'm in Seaside now, and the door placards have been changed to state 10:00 am. I'm predicting this might stay in place for a long time.....)


Will this increase in minimum night prices ever end? I think it was like $40 when we bought in. I haven't taken the time to scour the rules, but is there any way to get increases like this to be subject to 60% owner approval? (Would that even help with all the credits the developer owns and all the clueless owners who do what the BOD recommends?)

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Worldmarking since 2007 on aftermarket credits :) Arrow Point, Birch Bay, Camlin, Discovery Bay, Lake Chelan, Leavenworth, Long Beach, Ocean Shores, Seaside, Angels Camp, Clear Lake, Indio, Eagle Crest, Yellowstone, The Lake House, Vancouver BC, Windsor


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 PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep 2020 7:48 pm   
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Joined: Sat 20 Nov 2010 8:33 am
Posts: 1423
Location: CA
I’m still optimistic. Covid threw everything for a loop, not just vacationing, but it won’t last forever. Now that we know more about the virus than we did at the beginning (and what precautions are truly necessary) it doesn’t seem so intimidating.

We haven’t been anywhere for nearly nine months. But we gifted a weekend at Big Bear last month and our guests had a good time despite the restrictions. We’re trying out the Scottsdale resort in October for four nights. And we have waitlist requests in for Yellowstone and another for a second gift vacation at Big Bear. Onward!

Wyndham is Wyndham. We do what we can to express our opinions and we vote. Beyond that, it’s realistic to believe that huge corporations will do what they want, with their bottom dollar being the driving factor. The recent changes in rental policies and guest certificates (following owner complaints about mega renters) is the second owner-driven effort that has backfired since we’ve been owners. So we need to be wise and careful what we wish for.

Anyway, nothing stays the same forever. We’re planning to get as much out of our ownership as we can.


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